If a lie is free speach can I now lie to the police, or in court, or on my resume, or to my wife and kids? This excuse, "I was only exercising my first amendment rights" will begin to be used from kindergarten to the White House. This is just another example of the dumbing down of America.

Weirdly enough, and appalling as lying can be, I do not think this is a sign of the "dumbing down of America". It may have the interesting effect of making us MORE CAREFUL about believing the things we are told. In any case, as sick or sad or pathetic as it may be to lie about military feats in particular, people have been "reinterpreting" themselves and their life experiences (some deliberately, some less so) since the beginning of time. And criminalizing it could be very costly, unnecessarily contentious, and ultimately absurd. Check your source!! That is the positive side of this ruling.

Most people know "Wrong" when they see it or hear it. If you have to explain it for more than a yes or no answer, then you don't believe in the moral aspect of the difference between Right and Wrong. This was a bad ruling.

Claiming to have received a medal for personal gain, no matter the reason- is an insult to those who truly earned them. In my opinion such an act is despicable and outright cowardice, pure and simple.

The Founding Fathers must be spinning at the current interpretations of the Constitution that they forged.

The Court does not rule on morality, it rules on the law. We may regret that morality and the law often diverge, but that is neither the fault nor the province of our courts. Your right and wrong may very likely differ from your neighbor's view. Lying is wrong--most, as you say, agree--but lying in and of itself has never been illegal, and the Supreme Court is absolutely justified in not taking on the responsibility for interpreting or enforcing what in any case would remain highly subjective human morals.

@ David, your opinion is quite correct.

It's high time we brought back "Shame on You" to the public arena. All the touchy feeliness of the last 45 years, making excuses and swapping out peoples bad behavior, for considering them victims of this, that, or the other thing has finally come to an end. A spade is a spade. Lying about your military record or other achievements is something a moral less person would do. There are unwritten social morals in civil society, to keep it real and honest.

You can legally lie about your character and achievements in the public square but it's also legal for the public to feel disgust, scorn, shame, ridicule, embarassment and humiliation towards the person doing the lying. Free speech goes both ways. And it's not bullying, it's called public opinion. And public opinion makes you and breaks you quite easily. But in the end "Shame on You".

I was taught from a very young age, that the truth always finds it's way home. It's always proven true.

It was ok for Princess Liz to lie about being an Indian

She's not a princess, and may or may not have Native American ancestors. Why politicize this story? How is that common sense?

I'm torn on this one. If your "lie" harms someone else (i.e., if you're running for office and your lie about your military record allows you to beat a more deserving opponent -- who may well have actually served), how is that different from the free speech exception of yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater?

P.S. No genealogist now says that Liz Warren has ANY Indian blood, not even 1/32nd.
Whether she purposefully lied is only known to her and her Creator. Just setting the record straight, David. :)

It's disgraceful, but apparently it's ok if it helps you get into the Senate...particularly in New England.

David, thanks for referencing the atlantic article. It does indeed agree with me that there is NO accepted genealogical record -- none at all -- that she is ANY part Cherokee. Whether her claim of "minority status" helped her in any way career-wise is open to question...and it IS a legitimate question.

People lie...there is no way to stop that. But as a vet myself, even I know the difference between lying to a girl in a bar, and trying to receive money or benefits due to veteran status. That's where the line should be drawn.

I suppose that lying to a girl in a bar could cost much more in the long run...

David, just to be straight: I didn't bring up Liz Warren. But I can see how that topic would fit in this discussion...even if a little strained. Also, I am a former Army officer (un-wounded, thank God).

The essence of the Court's decision on this matter is that if the government is able to create laws prohibiting lying (i.e. limiting free speech) about this specific issue, then there is nothing to stop the government from making other laws prohibiting lying about another, and different, issue. Upholding free speech in this country is of primary importance. And, yes, free speech can have a down side.
Burning an American flag is repulsive and vile to me. But it is protected, symbolic, free speech. We, as a nation, are stronger because we protect that free speech.
Lying about military medals and achievements is despicable in the extreme. Those that lie about such things need to be publicly outed, shamed and disgraced. And that public outrage can be far more powerful than a fine or jail sentence.
Whenever I hear of someone lying about their military accomplishments, it makes me think about those women and men who have actually served and sacrificed. And whenever we do that, we honor them.

Gee how serious is lying?

(KJV) 1 Timothy 1:10
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

(KJV) Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The problem here is that the judicial system including everyone else have forgotten what God thinks of lying..

Lastly David N. you should consider some of your unprovable slanderous nonsense and comments you have made against the Rizolis. Thank God you aren't put to task for your falsehoods'. God is the final Judge on you, because you will be accountable for your words..

Joe Rizoli

Linda.....Are the Rizoi's "FREE" speech rights protected?
Have you seen my website....LOL There have been several attempts to stop us, including here, but we keep rolling along.
Jim@ccfiile.com

Isn't providing false statemts to a policeman a criminal offense? Don't we when we go to court have to swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
What would happen under that oath if we said no?

People who lie in court should go to jail. People who come into this country with false documents, false names, as is socially practiced by illegal immigrants and defended by liberals, some here even, should be ashamed of themselves or go to jail with them for defending such immoral, unethical, God defaming actions.

So basically what I am saying here is we have it's been estimated 12 million or more illegal immigrants in this country doing this now, why all the fuss? They seem to be getting away with it, or is being an illegal alien "free speech"?

Joe Rizoli

Dave you seem to be reading my post.
Dave if you want a Bible lesson I'd be happy to give you one free. Your viewpoint that God loves everyone is nonsense. Tell that to the guy on the white horse.

(KJV) Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Joe Rizoli

Firstly, Joe Rizoli, if you are a barely-literate, Bible- thumping, bullying thug, why should any god--yours included-- punish ME for that? I have never made a post on The Patch which was not sincere, and which I could not support fully and well. Look to your own house. My God advises me to forgive you and pray for you, and that I will seek to do.

David...You say Joe is uneducated......Check your spelling. I take it you're not a Bible reader. If Joe makes you laugh then why are you complaining?
Jim@ccfiile.com

Right Dave L, especially when you don't have to respond to any of my questions.

As to Revelation Dave, that entails our future, the man on that white horse has a problem with LIARS. He for some reason IS doing unto others what they have or will have done. That's why he is depicted on a white horse, he judges in Righteousness.

Now as to liars or supposed liars.

If a lie isn't that bad why was George Zimmerman put in jail them? The judiciary at its discretion applys the lieing agenda when it wants to.

Half of congress would be in jail, plus a few here on this list for words of untruth if my dreams came true..

Joe Rizoli

Dave....You're a really insulting type of guy.
But if that's your style good luck with it.
We try to not make it personal and deal with the facts, and we take a lot of pride in making people like yourself laugh.
Jim@ccfiile.com

I find people lying about military medals completely disgraceful.
Here's a good example:
http://sofrep.com/8584/phony-navy-seal-the-week-brian-creekmur-2/#.T-i0-fG3Y8s.twitter

Let's try to steer this conversation back to the post, and not attack each other. The law that the Supreme Court addressed was specific, one that made it illegal to claim you had a military decoration. It hasn't overturned all laws relating to lying, including lying under oath (perjury) or lying to a police officer.... Mary

Good thing it's not a crime. The junior senator (democrat of course) from the great state of Connecticut clearly lied about his military record.

Lies-a-lot Warren will fit right in with the liars, cheater, thieves, and plagiarists

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/nyregion/18blumenthal.html?pagewanted=all

Lying and devaluing the image of these men and women who fought to earn what they were awarded due to there contribution to this country I feel it isn't right that somebody can just lie and be put in a <a href="http://www.epiccosplay.com">position that</a> other people earned.

David...Joe Cortina has some interesting things to say on other subjects too, you might want to look at them.
Jim@ccfiile.com

This question was asked;
" Any soldier who dies defending this country, in any theater, combat or not. Is that soldier a hero?"

No.
Any solider who is involved In the many illegal wars is nothing more than a fool and if he has killed innocent people is a murderer. God will be the decider of that mans fate. The Westboro Baptist Church is right on here.

My comments to another Patch across the country:

http://oakcreek.patch.com/articles/westboro-protest-won-t-stop-assembly-of-god?1341044472#comment_3811797

So Dave, you didn't fight for my freedom you were used to fight for an illegal war cabal, that has taken probably many innocent lives. I'd suggest you read about the real hero's who refused to fight for evil. They are the true hero's.
Other men I respect are Charles Lindbergh Sr and Jr.

They are the true hero's of this country, not some fools who didn't stand up for what morally right. Please don't give me crap that you fought for this country, I am NOT impressed.

As to people "lying" about medals to illegal wars in general, I'd be embarrassed to even want to associate myself with any medals of any of these illegal wars. The person must be mentally Ill.

Joe Rizoli

Dave.... you're not being nice!
Everyone has the right to their opinions right?
If you don't like the WBC don't watch them.
Jim@ccfiile.com

Let's just stop responding to the Rizoli. Nothing anyone can say will change the Rizoli. The Rizoli is entitled to unlimited free speech. No one has to read or respond to the Rizoli on this or any other comment ever again.

Jim, you are in no position to tell other people to be nice. Please, show a little modesty! Everybody understands perfectly well that attention--any attention--is gratifying to you. But to tell other people to be nice? That is rich. And I agree with Myd, Bozo and Krusty can be entertaining and informative. So the analogy falls apart.

Linda....Why bother?
You know I'm not Worthy.....
Jim@ccfiile.com

That's it, I'm taking Linda's advice, I'm not responding to my brothers comments, hehehe

He we go again with the Patchees. They can't debate so the name calling begins and the people that run the site allow this conduct, which by the way is in violation of the Patches policy to be nice, is ignored by the elite Patches who play by nobody's rules.

Keep it coming Patches we love it.
We're not Worthy, we're not Worthy.

Our post are the Patch drug that keeps you drug like addicted Patches coming back for more.

Linda did you read this post? Shame on you!!!

Joe Rizoli

David N, your problem is the lies you've posted about us are coming back to haunt you. So with all your intelligence you prove name calling is easier for you to get out of answering any of our concerns.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win" -- Mahatma Gandhi

Obviously we are winning.

Joe Rizoli

Please Joe, just shut up. I mean that in a friendly way. You are not up to the discourse, so you lash out at "The Patches". Have you EVER, in your lives, dealt with people as individuals, rather than as easily compartmentalized groups, which you invented, and which you squash like so many plastic army men on your bedroom rug? Seriously! When people ask you to be nice, they mean that they think you should try to be nice. Chill, think, and be nice. Try it!!! You may or may not be worthy, but you are definitely boring!!!!!!

David you are out of control. Obviously we are still winning. You continue to slander, defame and character assassinate without any proof but your own mental issues.
Obviously God is working on your conscience as you come after the Rizolis. Continue to rant David N. Nobody cares.
Time to take a few breaths David. The Rizolis aren't the topic of conversation here David. Come back down to earth. Slander and defamation especially in writing is libel David. It is also a sin against God, please repent David.

(KJV) Proverbs 10:18
He that hideth hatred [with] lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, [is] a fool.

(KJV) Psalms 120:2
Deliver my soul, O LORD, from lying lips, [and] from a deceitful tongue.

Joe Rizoli

And if, by mental issues, you are referring to my overindulgence in Trader Joe's Organic Yellow Corn Tortilla Chip Rounds, you got me again!!! Zing. You really are the bitterest pill I know.

David...You should sit down with Joe sharing those Chips with him with the red Pepper Humus. I'll bet you'll both be friends after.
Jim@ccfiile.com

I am NOT sharing my chips. Stop glossing over your brother's creepy nastiness, which everybody else here seems to recognize, and which you use as a cover for your own creepy nastiness. Velvet sledgehammer? Is that what they're calling deranged and abusive now? You and your brother are always telling other people that they should be ashamed. WHEN are you going to look into that mirror yourselves? Huh? Waiting!!! Still waiting!!!! Waiting..... And we're still waiting.... Stop hurting people, and stop hurting people and telling everybody you speak for God, and stop hurting people and saying that you know things you don't know, and stop linking to stupid non-information sites that back up your own stupid prejudices, and by all means, have a nice day!

For anyone in this thread who believes that quoting the bible brings their argument any legitimacy I direct you and anyone else interested how quotes can be misapplied in that document to here

http://www.cafemom.com/journals/read/1560067/Letter_to_Dr_Laura_about_the_Bible_homosexuality_and_other_laws

Westborough friends,

We seem to have attracted some trolls (people who like to jerk your chain just to get a response) to this thread. I'd like to recommend simply ignoring them -- don't give them the attention they crave.

Free speech is the cornerstones of the US Constitution. Whether the speech be a lie about military honors or be trolling and espousing outrageous opinions. Public opinion and community opinion carries quite a bit of weight, and that's a good thing. But, just because a person's opinion or lie is dispicable doesn't mean it should be illegal. If we cross that line, we endanger our invaluable freedoms.

In the meantime, we're approaching the birthday of our nation. Celebrate your freedoms, thank a vet and say a prayer for those lost in service.

It's a crime to impersonate a police officer, it's a crime to provide a false name, it's a terminable offense if you lie on a resume but it's not a crime to impersonate a veteran? Its disgusting and appalling that the Supreme Court gives such little thought and respect to those who fought and continue to fight for our freedoms...including our right to freedom of speech. People all over this country are purchasing bogus medals and falsifying military records to gain access to benefits, services and good will bestowed upon veterans. Stealing money and valor from those who truly deserve it, taking resources from those who have earned it and deserve it. They are thieves, plain and simple. We should be ashamed that this country will not protect those who protect it.

Brenda....Nice to see your interest in the matter. The only problem is you quote the Hebrew Scriptures which only applied to the Israelites (Jews) at the time.
Not to say the spirit of those laws are not not important but the tie in to Christians is not applicable today.
Romans 7:6
6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
Christians are under a New set of rules....which are summed up pretty easily here...
Love God and Love your neighbor.
Mark 12:28-31
28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[f] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[g] There is no commandment greater than these.”
Not to say there aren't other things to consider....Like Moral issues i.e. marriage, homosexuality, war, and others which the Bible is pretty stead fast on.
I Corinthians 6:9-11 please read what God is against ....
Jim@ccfiile.com

Oh, I forgot......In 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 God doesn't take to well to lying either.
I would think that would put this whole topic on lying to rest......right?
Jim@ccfiile.com

U.S. Law.......Ya right. They had laws condoning slavery. They put innocent Japenese people in prison during WW2..... How about the law Blacks couldn't sit in the front of the bus, or drink at white water coolers, or play on certain sport teams.
Yup....The U.S. Govt has made plenty of LAWS, or didn't enforce the laws that were against such vile things.
Now they have gone the opposite direction.....Killing is good, free speech is bad.
Having sex with anyone and anything is good for you. Lets kill some babies!
This Govt. is where it is today because they REFUSE to apply God's Law.
All Govt's will answer in the end as will all mockers.
Dan. 2:44
"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.
Jim@ccfiile.com

I am delighted to see that one of the Rizolis is against killing babies, on Sunday, July 1, 2012.

Let's just stop responding to the Rizoli. Nothing anyone can say will change the Rizoli. The Rizoli is entitled to unlimited free speech. No one has to read or respond to the Rizoli on this or any other comment ever again.

David N, if I got a lawyer he'd have a field day with your comments. 
Always looking for the witches test on the Rizol's but finding none.

 If you lived during the Salem witch trials you would of been one of the accusers. False accusations, lies, and now falling on the ground in convulsions giving everybody a good show. You give a great story David but where's my witches pole? Where is my "spectra" David? Where? Only in your mind. It's really nice having the "shadow" follow us in every post we make no matter what the topic. 

David has to come out with his "spectral evidence"  of nonsense, he has to tell the world how the Rizol's think. I don't need you David, I'll speak for myself, thank you. If any of you want a discussion about any topics that David seems to like to discuss on the Rizolis you can email me  Rizolitv@gmail...........com

Our latest cable show is on our website at CCFIILE.com under Rizolitv , surprise, show # 12 was on the Salem Witch trials and Framingham

Joe Rizoli

Linda...What is the "Rizoli"...is it some disease? LOL Are your OK?
Considering that you don't want anyone to respond to us you sure are responding to us. Dave....What is the killing babies comment about?
I think the heat is getting to some of you. Instead of eating Chips you should try some some cold ice cream.
Jim@ccfiile.com

Linda tell that to David N. 
Linda, what if I said everyone to not to respond anyone posting here who was Jewish? Or Catholic? Or Muslim? 

You make the Rizolis seem so powerful and dangerous. Why, because we can think?

Imagine, educated people here, some probably highly educated, and you can't compete with the Rizolis who only graduated high school. Not saying much about any of you. 
Finally, why does this always turn Into a Rizoli thing? 

Why? Because David N starts the witch trials going again, and again and again against the Rizolis, he doesn't stop. Talk to him not us. 

David's become the Patches own Malleus Maleficarum.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum

Joe Rizoli

Public opinion of the Rizoli's was established long ago. Just as is their opinion of us has been.

Lets try to keep this commentary focused on the article.

I would like to thank BOTH of the Davids for the valuable service that they provide to the Patch communtiy...namely, to quash and squash the Rizolis and their ever so ignorant and childish comments! Both of you deserve to be held in such high regard for verbally counter-punching these two nit-wits into the ground.

I especially loved it one time when one of the Davids (Nolta i think?) decided NOT to directly respond to Joe (i think? whatever...they both share the same brain so that basically gives them about 60 IQ points each) and he responded In a calm manner to the rest of the audience.....i'm willing to bet that that action probably p#ssed Joe off much to my delight!

Sorry Jim and Joe...but when these two go at you, you guys look even more inane and pathetic than before.....and we are all laughing it up....or as YOU would like to say Jim, "LOL"!!!

Like we're worried about you guys and your opinions of us.
Dan, nice to see another hand slapper coming into the picture.
No debate in what we say just, personal attacks. Ya....that's something to be proud of. How about sticking with the topic as best you can and not the personal attacks. Ya...but that wouldn't be as much fun for you guys. Talking about pathetic...
Jim@ccfiile.com

The topic was for all those that missed it, lying.
From what I can see most here seem to have no problem with it while a few seem to understand the moral and social implications.
We have presented the Bible's view but as usual the God haters have done the best they could to derail the topic. No surprises here.
Jim@ccfiile.com

What is the topic here people?
The Rizolis or falsifying medals and lying about it?

Maybe the Patch owners can bring this back to reality.
Maybe the children in their Wolfe pack can come back out if their feeding frenzy, you know kinda like the Salem witch trial accusers?

They are falling all over themselves now.

Hey, if you want to talk about all of this our phone number is on the CCFIILE.com web site. I'd be more than happy to take your phone calls. Problem is you people don't have the ethics to call or state your case personally but through insults, slander and "spectral" nonsense evidence.
We are just laughing at you all. You make great entertainment. Then again your cult leader told you not to respond to us, oh, oh seems she is not being listened to.
Naughty naughty hehehehe

As to lying about this medal situation, more of you veterans should make your complaints known to your state reps. Numbers and phone calls do make a difference

Joe Rizoli

David....No lies just the facts! No, the Bible doesn't tell us to love everyone.
It says Love what is good, HATE what is bad.....If you're doing bad things you're in big trouble....sorry! In regards to presenting our views in a public setting....Hmmmm, having two cable shows isn't enough for you?
Having a You Tube site up with over 250 videos isn't enough for you. Having another site with over 300 hour or so videos isn't enough for you.
How many videos do you have? I think we're in the publics eye quite a bit.
Oh, did I mention my website.......some great links there.
Tonight 11pm. cable TV for Rizoli TV if your interested.
Jim@ccfiile.com

David....You don't even rate in the same class as us when it comes to video...LOL
Save your Kodak Instamatic for another day.
When you put together a video with some good substance to it then we will talk.
Jim@ccfiile.com

David.....That's about your speed in videos.....a talking dog...LOL
Jim@ccfiile.com

David...Really now....A baby spitting out snot will have a billion hits. What does that tell you about the people watching that stuff.
I bet you watch wrestling too! The hits on youtube shows what's important to people. Pretty sad if you ask me.
Want to watch good videos go to my website. Oh, I forgot Dave, you like the ones with animals. Next will be insects.
jim@ccfiile.com

It's amazing when the Rizoli's pour out their drivel and when they get pushback from people who are clearly more intelligent and articulate than they are, they spout out "libel" and "slander" and play the victim instead of manning up....hmmmm...maybe they are indeed the "gurlymen" and are "mamby-pamby" that they talk about.

Yep......WE'RE STILL LAUGHING AT YOU, RIZOLIS! LOL

Joe, you said, "Maybe the Patch owners can bring this back to reality.
Maybe the children in their Wolfe pack can come back out if their feeding frenzy, you know kinda like the Salem witch trial accusers?"

What ON EARTH are you blabbering about anyway??? Can you at least form a coherant sentence??? And are you equating yourselves with the Salem witch trial victims?

You two are NOT victims. Your ignorant comments are the "chickens coming home to roost" and boomeranging back in your faces!

STILL LAUGHING

You all should really just exchange e-mails. This is ridiculous, and I move for the comments to be disabled on this post.

Dave gets away with saying;

>> You are not worth even being called human anymore! I scrape stuff like you off my windshield>>

Dave have you read the Patch terms of use policy?

<<We understand that everyone has different opinions, but Patch will make the sole determination as to whether Content is acceptable for the Service. (Someone has to be in charge, right?) Without limitation, you agree that you will not post or transmit to other users anything that contains Content that:

is defamatory, abusive, obscene, profane or offensive;>>

Contemplate Dave your comments about the windshield as applying to any person Dave.

That should not even be applied to an illegal alien, yet you applied it to someone on this Patch list

You're really are out of control.
When you come back down to earth maybe we can discuss a video of some kind.

Apparently those listening here must like you comments and agree with you, right David N? 

Joe Rizoli

The wolf pack is back! How about getting back on track with this article.
Jim@ccfiile.com

OK - I'm going to shut down comments here. Thanks to all of those who have stayed on track. Please, please, please obey the pool rules; it's good for everyone!